Effective Q + A :)

Hi all

My first posting

Reading my new book 'Teaching Today' inspired me to start this topic and share this great explanation for asking searching questions. I'd like to start by asking this:

The warning sign for wild fowl.... When I point out this sign and ask my students... What does that sign mean?
And they respond by saying that it's warning of ducks or wild fowl. Should I be satisfied with that answer?

Hello

The fact you have asked the question at 12 oclock at night, I would think the answer must be no!

Firstly though i would be impressed they knew that sign & that ducks were wild fowl. But I presume how deep the Q&A goes depends on where you see the sign & if its the most pressing subject on the road at that time. You dont want them looking in the sky for low flying ducks. or in the pond by the side of the road, coz then their eyes will not be on the road ahead ?!!

Good question chris

I like it!!!!

Playing devils advocate here..... I guess it would depend on why you were asking the question in the first place!!

Think you two have missed the point !!!!
Dont avoid it unless you can, squash the duck if its there, or you might end up in the pond with the others
Quack!

Please don't look at the time, I posted a careful reply then lost it when I had to log in

Well if I'm wanting to know whether my pupil can remeber what they read and pass the theory test, I'm delighted
If however my purpose is to find out whether they will be a responsible road user and understand the information that is there for them, we need to pull up or I need a better question. I know that when I try and go deeper with the same question, So what does that mean then? they will reply that a duck might be in the road or there might be low flying birds.

To illustrate the difference between questions that lead to correct responses and questions that lead to understanding I'd like you to read on. Geoff Petty calls this the Jabberwocky exercise because he asks you to read the first verse of 'Jabberwocky' by Lewis Carroll and answer the questions that follow. This is a nonsense poem, so most of the words have no meaning.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

1. What were the slithy toves doing in the wabe?
2. How would you describe the state of the borogroves?
3. What can you say about the mome raths?

Please answer questions 1,2 and 3 before answering the following questions.

4. Does the student need to understand the material in order to answer these low-level questions?
5. Why were the borogoves mimsy?
6. How effective was the mome raths strategy?

So does anyone have any better questions that I could have asked, or any good answers that would demonstrate understanding because maybe I would need to be clear about those myself so that I would know what question to ask in the first place.

Thanks for the responses BTW

Hello night owl,

Nonsence poems why?? What are they all about??? Hated them at school !!

As lin said, I also think it is why are you asking the question.

IMO....In any walk of life you might start with a broad question eg, how was your day at school. Depending on what you find out from that question, is often how deep the conversation goes. If they answer 'it was fine', the conversation may stop, you have your answer. If the answer is 'I was bullied again today' then the Q & A becomes deeper & much more specific. Who did it, why, what was the sitution..... etc.

So back to the ducks... if you are just checking they know their signs then your question is adequate enough. If you want to know what they would do if they saw one, then the question could be, ' how would you react if a bird was in front of you on the road?' A more complicated question & one that would definately require you to pull up.

I know you know this but you are wanting a discussion.... When you ask a question you need to have an idea of the answer you are expectiing. But many questions, although you know what you are asking, are lost in translation, we all see things slightly differently, so you may not get the answer you require, so, you ask another. It doesnt make the first one a wrong question, it just becomes an opening question.

As for me. I have never seen that sign locally, but have had several 'bird' experiences. Several pigeons & magpies insist on walking across the road in the cheam area instead of flying. I think they are paid by the residence to scare learners. I always relay what happened with a pupil of mine last year, when two pigeons where in the road, we were discussing them as we approached, but they didnt fly away. Duncan then swerved to avoid them while we had a car overtaking us at the same time..... It was so quick & I didnt expect him to do it, as I'd told him to just slow down. A very near accident!! We pulled up while I waited for the man to shout at me but thankfully he just drove off.

After discussing it & me telling him it was better to hit the bird than another car he then imformed me he had no problem killing birds coz he shoots !!!! He was worried how I would react about killing it. It was nice of him to concider my feelings but my reply was, I would prefer to wash my car than to get it fixed. He took my point.

To be fair I would have been really upset. Unlike phil I am very unwilling to knock a bird, or anything over. My advice is always to mirror check & slow down as long as its safe. So they can get out of the way. I have also followed a pheasant down the road near epsom downs, yes we slowed the car behind down for a minute or so, but I'm not prepared to kill anything if there is another way to deal with the situation....

Hello All, well at last Cris has joined the chatty bit!

Gosh, it does seem to be a lot of reading, thinking and typing involved here!
But here goes.

I have seen your sign Chris, it is located on Spring Street one-way in Ewell just past Fitznells Doctors surgery before the two ponds.
Up until about 18 months ago, some comedian had stuck a Father Christmas picture on the duck's back which was very funny: boring council
removed it.

My favourite animal sign is the Migratory Toad Crossing: there is one in Shalford (near Guildford) and one in Albury (near Dorking) and this sign
always promotes good Q&A with pupils, usually ending with me being asked how many toads I have seen on the crossings? Answer: Not One Ever!!!

Ok thats enough for my first effort, think I am going to really enjoy this stuff,
ATB
Cris

I was looking forward to a discussion it's true.

Quote:- "When you ask a question you need to have an idea of the answer you are expectiing. But many questions, although you know what you are asking, are lost in translation, we all see things slightly differently, so you may not get the answer you require, so, you ask another. It doesnt make the first one a wrong question, it just becomes an opening question"

That "lost in translation" part is talked about early in my book. It's called 'constructivism' and is based on new learning from old. basically we bring all our knowlege and experience to the lesson, student and teacher alike, and we try to match world veiws. another example of this is when you tell some about an event and they retell it differently, they are being accurate as far as they know but it is from their own world veiw.
We are trained to use this technique in our lessons but as you can see, it can be frought. It's true that sometimes a simple question becomes an opening question, but it's nice to find out why our pupils don't understand us though

That sign by The Spring used to have Robin Hood riding on the duck there is also a duck sign at Walton on the hill and one in Lower Ashtead. You can find a toad sign in Epsom heading towards Oxshott

There's another Toad Crossing in Old Coulsdon. When I first saw it, I looked it up in the HC and DES but no luck. The best guess I could come up with was to expect slippery conditions (squashed toads ).

However, a bit of research shows that the real hazard you should expect is the volunteers - well meaning people with too much time on their hands, who operate in shifts to escort the lucky amphibians safely across the road in the migration season. I've yet to see one, but I expect they wear high-viz jackets. And sandals.

So far, none of my pupils has got the right answer!

With the toad I talk about distacted drivers and sudden braking, or an oncomming vehicle swerving towards you.
I know of someone who died because an oncoming vehicle swerved to avoid a puddle!!

However is the subject effective Q + A

Hi Chris, I've just got that Geoff Petty book too!

I feel that the most effective questions are those that provoke thought and observation .... so a better opening question might be, 'What do you need to be aware of here?'. The more truly open questions you ask, the more awareness and responsibility you encourage in your student/client.

That's exactly what I was looking for. A well used question in any lesson that one. Of course we might still end up stationary if they talk about ducks in the road and low flying geese, however then it's my turn to guide them towards a better understanding of the information that is there. Maybe a blatant "what else would you associate with a duck pond?"

I think you two may be cheating coz you are reading the same book. I havent got your book :-( .

Just a thought tho.... wouldnt a far more open question lead to even more uncertainty that you will get the answer you require back??
Epecially bearing in mind the different levels of 'abilities we deal with ?? Just a thought from someone without a book

Ps toads are nocturnal so unless you drive by at night you are very unlikely to see one , then only if they are wearing hi vis jackets !!!!!!!

I know what you mean, I would not expect someone early on to do more than identify a sign, but I would hope to develop them so that they can make good judgements. that would require them to first develop an understanding beyond recall.

For the toad thing, if I tell you not to think of a pink giraffe, it's difficult not to. If you see a sign for toads and a moving leaf, you may swerve to avoid it. 1 in a million chance I know but there are 60 million of us.

The book we are reading talks about teaching in general, It's really good, as you can see from the Jabberwocky questions, it makes it clear about the differance between knowledge, which is a product of memory, and understanding, which requires the student to make deeper connections.
I have the book it's true but Lin is also really clever at driving tuition

BTW is there a time limit on membership fee refunds? A 30 day policy perhaps, I've got my check test on the 12th

So we are starting to look at some serious Q&A stuff for the pupils here
and the odd question for ourselves:

Q) Do you know the difference between a toad and a leaf?
Q) Would you be required to avoid toads in the road?
Q) Why would it be dangerous to serve to avoid a toad?
Q) Do toads wear high viz jackets?
Q) Are examiners toads cos they wear high viz jackets?
Q) Why is there not a toad in the Emoticons list?

Doing this on my blackberry the screen & letters r v small . Following on from the pink giraffe theory .....


Mayb another question could b. ' Are some warning signs more of a hinderence than a help to drivers ' ??

Btw no chris u can't have a refund coz u definately won't need one

Hello

Can I join your club ..... please ..... Ive just bought the book.

Ps I know lin is very clever she may have even written the book

My thoughts are that it's the type of question that's important..... A closed question just doesnt tell you much about the understanding you student has towards the topic. A leading (or what we used to call prompted) question enables them to have an even better guess! The more open the question is the more you, and more importantly they, learn!!

Going back to the OP and the wild fowl........ If you simply point out the sign and ask what it means, you only discover if they know (or can guess) broadly what it means! If the answer is correct, you move on: if it's wrong, you tell 'em!!

However, if you ask an open question you get a concrete place at which to start your students learning..... for instance, asking 'What are you aware of here?' in the same situation might get some uber bizarre response!! Maybe they havent even seen the sign!..... Maybe they don't know that triangular signs are warnings!....... Maybe they are related to Phil and have a hatred towards our feathered friends, and will use your car as a weapon!...... Maybe they just can't imagine/understand the consequences and find it difficult to plan for the potential hazard..... but just possibly they are a star!!

Jules wrote:

Hello

Can I join your club ..... please ..... Ive just bought the book.

I like this book Julie, it suits the way I learn. I can dip into it here and there to glean the info I want..... I haven't the staying power to read a book from cover to cover!!

It's a great book.

We have been discussing 'Blooms Taxonmy'

Now lets look at membership with 'Maslows hierarchy of needs ' in mind

ChrisandRuth wrote:

It's a great book.

We have been discussing 'Blooms Taxonmy'

Now lets look at membership with 'Maslows hierarchy of needs ' in mind

Clever clogs!!

Ha Ha not me, I only read a book and writ wot I red.