Do you 'teach 'the syllabus'?

Having spoken to a couple of ADIs this week that thought they taught 'the syllabus' but had never actually seen these DSA documents...... They thought it was all about whether or not you taught the right reverse manoeuvre!! What's your understanding???

Driving Standard: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Syllabus: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Framework: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So, do you teach the syllabus?

Hi Lin
No I probably dont tbh. I have had a very brief look at those links. So I cant give a very detailed reply.
I do give out a sheet on a first lesson explaining the very basics of drugs/ tiredness etc. I briefly go over it but I suppose I leave alot of it to the theory test. I do say about any supervising drivers though coz I have had a few pupils lately who have been out with friends who have only just past!! I do speak about the costs.. mainly coz my sons insurance was £3700+ when he passed in april, but you cant be specific on that, apart from saying it just costs a fortune. Coz that amount of money is soo much money for what it is.

I like to think I do cover most things, but I probably dont. I often talk about attitude... did a bit of intense coaching about cyclists the other day (as you explained on our phone call) & managed to change a 17year old boys mind. I was quite impressed with myself.

I wonder though if its even possible to transfer all the knowlege we have to our pupils in the relatively small amount of time we have with them, when money is an issue & the test the goal. Let alone wondering how much they remember of what we have said to them often in quite intense situations. Add into the mix, the pupils that have problems retaining information anyway !! Its hard to know how good a job you are doing.

I give out handouts at the end of every new topic so they have something to refer to if they have forgotten what I have said. That makes me feel better knowing they have the basics written down

So in answer to your question Lin, I dont think anyone can say they have taught everything they know to very pupil, but mayb thats my inexperience & cynical view on things......
Julie

I spent some days at Nottingham 3 years ago working on the Driving Standard and Syllabus documents, and they were finally published last month!! Shows you how long it takes to get these things in place!! Did it surprise you to see all this info? Bugs me that the DSA continue to communicate so poorly with ADIs following the furore over HPT!!

I've found that printing the units for each pupil and highlighting the bits covered at the end of each lesson helps me get organised Julie.... With the brain of an ageing goldfish, I'd never remember it all!!

Well done with the cyclist/attitude bit.... changing how you do things bit by bit is a great way of finding out what works/doesnt work for you and challenging yourself to improve your 'product'! Clients 'retaining info' is one reason why coaching is mooted as the way forward in driver training at all levels. It's all about them and their thoughts, not what you tell them to think and do: If they have thought about something and worked out why it works when done in a particular way, they have truly learnt (and not just been told)..... Questions like: 'How do you feel....?', 'What do you think....?', 'What is your opinion....?', 'Can you explain....?' work well for me!!

Hope that makes some sense!!

Hi Lin,

Well I am impressed you were part of the team that produced these reports. After I posted I printed the first 2 off. I stand by what I said. Im sure I dont teach it all, if thats what we are supposed to be doing.

I was quite pleased to find out that they have only been recently published though as I thought it was something I should have known about ages ago. Mind you my training was rubbish. It didnt even cover the Part3 test subjects properly !!

I will read them more thoroughly sooner rather than later.

As for coaching, I do ask those sort of questions but not to depths we were discussing. I get put off when the grey answers come back ...' I dont know. Im not sure'. Dont want them to feel embarrassed so I back off.

I will keep trying though.

Thanks for the new discussion topic tho

T'was nothing impressive, and it cost a mint Julie.... no blinking expenses!! There was an earlier syllabus, but nothing like as in depth. Now it has finally been published they are looking to change things again (quite rightly imo, things have moved on). The Govt are stamping all over driver training atm and the DSA are jumping through hoops to comply. The 'modernising driver training' things that were discussed at the meeting with Mike Penning in London last week, look to be gaining momentum... learner driving first, then Pt2, Pt3 and ADI check tests it seems!! Would like to be involved in some of that!!

Pleased you gave it a go...... Dont let your learners get away with the 'dont know' and 'not sure' cop outs - its in their interest to know!! Lazy swines!! Say 'What dont you know....?' or 'What arnt you sure of....?' You will come across as caring (well that's my ploy anyway!!) Challenge the buggers!! It's the depth of understanding and the learning that comes with it that is so important. They will benefit.... and so will you!

Have fun!

Being very honest, I didn't realise there was an official syllabus!!! Am very interested though, but it's very wordy so will look for some spare time to put aside to read it.

Thanks Lin

There's a simpler version here:

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I work with LDC where we have a workbook for the pupils, which covers more or less the same ground.

There are some things you can't always practice (driving in the dark, snow, ice, fog) as they don't always arise. Rain always does!

I always teach bay parking (whether it will be tested or not), I don't always have time to practice reversing to the right, but I try to cover it in theory.

Thanks for that Max, they could be useful..... In fact, I can see where a(a) certain national school got their list of competencies now!!!

The best bit about the units listed in the syllabus imo, is that they enable you to deal with motivations, beliefs and attitudes. I find that these areas are often missed out when teaching for L test.

Thanks Lin and Max for that, Max fab posting, it's very condensed and apart for a few things it matches my pupil progress report card, I've just overprinted the pupil card with stuff like legal responsibilities, environ issues and security etc. 3 levels for intro, prompted and independently safe. Been using it for 3 or 4years now and would never go back to using the memory again. I can't remember even if I tried.
Cheers.

Think you two have missed the point. Read the documents & you will see what I mean !!!!

..... it's all about the depth we should go to when 'teaching' rather that the specific competencies 'taught'. I know they are long old documents, but I think they offer some superb ideas to follow and help trainers and clients alike to improve their skills, knowledge and attitude.

Jules wrote:

Think you two have missed the point. Read the documents & you will see what I mean !!!!

Hi Julie

I have read the standards and frameworks documents in the past.

I've never seen the full version of the syllabus, and the link in the original post doesn't work (at least on my PC).

I've searched for the syllabus on the direct.gov website without success. The DSA shouldn't be surprised if no-one uses it if they keep its existence a secret!

These docs are on the DfT/DSA site, Max.... Sorry if you cant get the link to work!! It seems to be working ok for me both on phone and PC.

I think the syllabus is the more important of the 3 docs, and one that in my experience of late, surprises many ADIs in the depth of it's detail. The DfT link is a bit older and signed off by the previous Minister, but the section on Education is interesting.

I totally agree with you about the way that DSA still struggle to pass info to ADIs and others regarding all road safety issues and Im always amazed if I find the info I want on their website. Its a maze!!..... and why I put these links on here tbh. It's up to each individual as to how they choose to use the info. The great majority of ADIs are self-employed and need to make the choices they believe to be correct for them and their particular business. It wouldn't do if we were all the same I guess!!

I quite agree Max. The DSA seem to work like MI5. Its probably only thanks to Lin that we have the chance to see the documents at all. Im not sure why you cant get the link though, although saying that I havent been able to see any links from this forum on my itouch or ipad so I have had to use my PC.

I havent totally finished reading all the documents yet, but I think they are very informative documents & I will be adding some of it to my lessons . However as I mentioned before with the time contraits you have on a lesson & how many lessons a pupil has, it may be hard to apire to tell them everything in the document.

I am starting to think BRAKES idea of having to have 45 lessons (I think) before you go to test may have its merits. It would maybe make our job easier to plan.

I can honestly say that I don't. It is a format I recognise from when I did my driving instructor NVQ and with the PTLLS course that I'm doing. I think that together with the ADI CPD that is on it's way and keeping effective student records, we can expect to be teaching this or something like it soon. thats no bad thing I think. both ourselves and our student would benefit here.