Public perception

Whether your business offers free lessons, discounted lessons, 5 for £56 or not.....

How do you feel they affect public perception of your driving school, these individual offers and our profession?

As a newcomer to this industry three years ago, two contrasting things struck me.

One was that almost the only thing most ADIs agreed on was that prices in general were too low.

The second was that a substantial number of them exacerbated the problem by promoting their business mainly (or only) on price, sometimes with ‘below cost’ offers. We now even have websites like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , where instructors compete to be the cheapest!

All of this must inevitably contribute to a public perception of a low-value product, and – in as much as the public think about it all - a low-value industry.

It seems to me that those of us who intend to stay in the industry, and stay solvent, need to distance ourselves from the cheapos in whatever ways we can.

For my part I do not offer silly discounts, and indeed don’t publicise my prices, but they are about 50% above some locals on the cheap’n’nasty website above. Probably half of my enquiries do start with the question ‘How much?’, but in many cases that’s only because they don’t know what else to ask. I always explain that if they‘re looking for the cheapest instructor they’ve come to the wrong place, but very few ring off. Most people are not stupid, they appreciate that quality is important, and that the total cost of learning is affected by more than just the headline ‘price per hour’.

Hi Max, looks like it's just you and me here!!

In general I agree that many ADIs are underpaid for the work they do. In their panic to get bums on seats, many have forgotten that they are running a business that should give them a meaningful profit!

Much as some of these ADIs/businesses could be perceived as 'cheap' and 'desperate,' I think we're kidding ourselves if we believe customers carefully consider why someone is offering a particular price, how they make a living, etc, because MOST people don't. If I were a potential client I would do my research, because that's the type of person I am. But I still think most haven't got the time or inclination to even consider it. They just want a good deal and don't want to feel they are being overcharged. What they are paying more for is a whole new subject!

If ADIs want to be successful, then surely it would be silly to ignore the precedent set by the market leaders? By sticking to our morals and not offering special deals for new customers, aren't we cutting off our nose to spite our face? I don't like seeing instructors struggling to make a living and the major national companies like BSM, AA, LDC, Bill Plant etc offer some very good deals to their instructors - I know I don't need to explain figures to you, but 5 for £56 and then 40 lessons at £21.95 is still more expensive than 45 lessons at £20. I hear ADIs up in arms about companies like Bill Plant all the time ("5 for £56? That's a disgrace"), but they haven't sat down to do the maths!

Where many independents get it wrong is that they dont offer 'loss leaders' or 'special offer' deals in this way, they just try and undercut the rest by offering cheap lessons from beginning to end..... What are they thinking? Personally, I dont think they are!! These are the ones, IMO that devalue the whole profession.... but from the inside!

Have a good day!

Hi

It's been a while since I last looked on the Forum.

I agree with Max that the first thing people ask is price because that is something where you get a definite answer.
We do offer an intructory price and a price for bulk buying, (still better than bill plants rate) but I think that getting a conversation going and showing interest in the person on the other end of the phone helps more.
Also having the confidence to let them phone round, desperately keeping people talking on the phone can't be good

Hello just a quickie in response to max.

Have you actually looked at that website if you key in my postcode there is only one person who is cheaper than me. The bulk are more expensive. I think you have misjudged that website coz of its name & presumed it was cheap instructors advertising. But I think it's a v good advertising site. Pupils think they are getting low cost lessons coz that's what it says..... But its not ' go compare', but they dont know that, perhaps they will think that's where they will find low priced lessons & may not look else where !!!!

On a serious note, I have just looked at that website again & it is actually a very professional looking site which is a booking service too. So I think max you should take that link out of your comment so to avoid any misunderstanding

Jules wrote:

Hello just a quickie in response to max.

Have you actually looked at that website if you key in my postcode there is only one person who is cheaper than me. The bulk are more expensive. I think you have misjudged that website coz of its name & presumed it was cheap instructors advertising. But I think it's a v good advertising site. Pupils think they are getting low cost lessons coz that's what it says..... But its not ' go compare', but they dont know that, perhaps they will think that's where they will find low priced lessons & may not look else where !!!!

Hi Jules

I don't think I have misjudged or misrepresented the site (I've made no comment on its quality), and it certainly isn't just cheap instructors who advertise there.

When I enter my own postcode, there are 18 instructors listed, ranging in price from £28 down to £18, and even £15 with Red's "5 for £75" offer.

It is however comparing instructors on one criterion alone - price - and that can only help perpetuate low prices in general. That in turn leads to a public perception of us as a low-cost and low-value industry, which was the point of the original post.

Potential customers have no information on which to compare except price, location, and a brief blurb provided by the ADI him/herself which is not helpful (the £18 person is apparently "excellent" and the £28 one "high quality") . Since they've chosen to use a site called "Low Price Lessons", why would they choose an instructor charging £25 or £28 over one at £18 or £21? In the long-term, only those instructors charging prices at the low end of the spectrum will use the site, and new entrants will tend to price themselves at that level. Hence my comment about instructors competing to be the cheapest.

We now even have websites like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , where instructors compete to be the cheapest!
For my part I do not offer silly discounts, and indeed don’t publicise my prices, but they are about 50% above some locals on the cheap’n’nasty website above.

Hello Max,
Well I have to disagree with you. You have misrepresented the site in what you have said in the comment above & by calling it cheap & nasty. As you seem reluctant to take it off of your post then please in future do not put website addresses in full, unless you are commenting positively about them.

In answer to your post as far as I know you work for LDC who are currently advertising 5 lessons for £60 according to google & you do advertise your prices. So I am unsure what point you are trying to make.

As for us independants, there is far more to our pricing than just trying to be the cheapest & getting more pupils than anyone else. I have always been independant since I started & had to build my business from scatch & at the beginning, I would have been one of the 'cheap & nasty' ones in your eyes !!!! But now after a few years of hard work my business is a healthy one & my prices have risen to reflect it.

Whilst I agree price is important when a pupil is choosing an instructor, it isnt the be all & end all. All my work is recommendation, that is how most buisinesses florish in any industry. If people always went for the cheapest then alot of us at SADIA would be out of work, so it cant just work that way can it.

However I would totally agree with you that we are seen as a low cost industry, but until the DSA step in & regulate prices in someway the problem will always be there & you will always get the instructors who are just happy to undercut lesson prices to a ridiculous level.

I think there are lot of negative things that we can point to. It's the same in every profession, we can point at people who compete on price, or to instructors who teach in a torn track suit, instructors who are unreliable etc... Where will that get us?

You don't need a shirt and tie to provide a good service. Julie makes a good point that when you don't have many students it's tempting to offer discounts, equally as Lin pointed out discounts don't always mean that overall lesson prices are cheaper.

I think that if we want to present a professional image, to the general public, then we should present a professional image not only of ourselves but also of our fellow professional instructors. As the saying goes 'If you don't have something good to say, don't say anything at all'. We don't all have the same opinion, teaching style or approach to the job itself but we should respect the fact that those who have qualified have probably done so against the odds. (Lin would know how many people who started their training go on to become qualified nationally)

I wear a shirt and tie because thats how I feel comfortable, (As an ex-mechanic it's a treat for me to dress up in the morning) I know that for some of my students it seems a little too formal (They have commented in the past), some female instructors wear trousers (that makes some religous people uncomfortable because it's mens clothing). What I'm really saying is that we should embrace the diversity of our students and of our fellow professionls

I totally agree with all you have said Chris.

Ps I tend to wear trousers ...... Hope you do too Chris along with your shirt & tie

Jules wrote:

Hello Max,
Well I have to disagree with you.

Hi Jules

It would be a very boring forum if we all agreed! My original post was not intended to be controversial, I was merely responding to Lin's question and – I hope – in the spirit of the forum rules.

However, I'm sorry that you found my “cheap & nasty” comment offensive. It wasn't aimed at the quality of the site but at the concept. I stand by that view – competing on price alone can only be harmful for the industry.

On your other points:

- Yes, I do work with (not 'for'!) LDC and yes, they are advertising 5 for £60, but only “from participating instructors”, of whom I am not one.
- I don't advertise my prices on my website. LDC give “area” prices on theirs, but those only apply to bookings through that site, which I can either accept or not, They don't (and can't legally) set individual instructors' prices. I'm not saying advertising prices is necessarily wrong - I'm not an expert.
- Although I have the benefits of a franchise it's a pretty hands-off one, and I too had to build up a business from scratch. If you want a constant supply of pupils, LDC is not the franchise for you!
- The DSA are never going to regulate prices. Even if they wanted to, it would be illegal.

I'm glad we agree about the perception, and I wish I had some more original ideas about improving it. Since this forum seems to be restricted to about six of us , maybe this subject could be usefully debated at a future Sadia meeting?

[quote="Max"] I stand by that view – competing on price alone can only be harmful for the industry.[quote]

Completely agree!!

As individuals I guess we need to 'educate' the public in how ADIs differ (by grade/experience/qualifications), and why paying more £s per hour can mean less training hours and/or a safer driver! It's easier when you have a business based on recommendations but if not, I can see how getting bodies in the car becomes attractive!!

Chris

Pass rates for each of the 3 parts of the ADI exams in 2010/2011 were:

Part 1 - Theory test: 47%

Part 2 - Test of driving ability: 48%

Part 3 - Test of instructional ability: 34%

This means that just under half of those who start training pass Part 1 and go on to Part 2

Of those that take Part 2, under half pass and progress to Part 3

Of those that take part 3, just over one third pass and become qualified ADI's

If Ive worked that out correctly the overall pass rate is around 8%.... Isn't that appalling!?!?! Even worse, I guess some drop out before they even take a Part One test!!

Hi Max,
I have not got a problem with people disagreeing on this forum. That would be ridiculous & make the forum pointless.

Phil & I are both reponsible for what is said here/ We are the moderators & we both felt your naming of the website plus refering to RED in a subsequent post was disrepectful, whether you meant it or not. which is infact point 8 on the rules of using this forum.

It maybe your opinion but you didnt have to name them. SADIA is not about being disrespectful to others in our profession for whatever reason. Of course you have as much right to say what you think as anybody else but there is no need to 'name names'. that was my point.

To be honest this is a subject I dont really want to get into as I probably dont agree with all thats been said. I have gone down the cheaper end route & for me it worked very well. As long as people are using it as a route to improve their business I dont see it as a problem. If after years in the profession they are still charging v cheap prices then that would be different. But how to you police that?

I answered your post because to me however you word it your car is a LDC car so you ultimately dont run your own business & I felt you were not taking into account how difficult it can be. I speak to loads of instructors on this subject & its not a simple one if you are on your own. But I dont know your history anymore than you know mine so maybe a more private discussion is called for.

As for your last comment we did have a very heated discussion about prices at one of our meetings at the scout hut. Typically nothing was resolved, too many opposing opionions. I even had one member email me & say if SADIA was about setting prices she wanted no more to do with it as it was illegal. Which it is. But things are only illegal until perhaps pressure is brought to bear & the law is changed. For me, some legislation would be beneficial. Ive seen a local car advertising lessons for £4.99. If you are on any of the facebook groups there is even someone up north charging .99p obviously an idiot !! But there is nothing to say he cant do it.

As usual Lin brings up a very good subject. But for SADIA & the forums sake please dont name names. None of us know where it could lead. All these sites are monitored & we all have to be careful what we all say.

Its not appalling just shows how special we really are xx

But I think it just goes to proves its not as easy to qualify as the adverts imply, plus how many cant hack it when they get there ??

Jules wrote:

Hi Max,
I have not got a problem with people disagreeing on this forum. That would be ridiculous & make the forum pointless.

Phil & I are both reponsible for what is said here/ We are the moderators & we both felt your naming of the website plus refering to RED in a subsequent post was disrepectful, whether you meant it or not. which is infact point 8 on the rules of using this forum.

Hi Jules

I understand your point about naming names. I apologise for breaking the rules and will be more careful in future.

With regard to the final point, I wasn't actually suggesting a debate about pricing. Even discussing it can be taken by the OFT as evidence of price fixing! I was really thinking about what other things we can do to improve the image of the profession/industry.

Hi Max.

Thanks for your understanding. Thats was all I was on about !!

Yes that is a good idea. I will put it to the committee at the next committee meeting. I think we could do with some discussion time at meetings. Its just trying to scheule it in.

Keep posting ......

So you can spend about £2,000 for an 8% chance to get £4.99/hr

Sounds like a game show from HELL!!!

The problem with cheap lessons prices is supply and denmand, look at house prices as soon as there is less supply the prices go up. The Dsa cannot regulate the prices we charge, however we could self regulate by reducing the suppliers of driving lessons. most people who go out on their own need to gain pupils and the best way to get new pupils is with price. If the big Schools and driving instructors stopped lining their own pockets with PDI income and got back to basics. the industry would be a more profitable place for us all.